ABC "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" -Transcript
Interview
ABC "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" -Transcript
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're now going to turn to another Democratic candidate for president. That's Governor Bill Richardson. He's called for the quickest and most complete withdrawal from Iraq.
Governor Richardson, good morning. You heard Senator McCain there. He said, basically, it's time for Democrats who oppose the surge to say they were wrong.
GOV. RICHARDSON: Look, progress shouldn't be measured by casualty counts, body counts. Just in the last day, two more devastating bombings, a pet market in Baghdad a day ago, a bombing. Americans continue to die. Forty died in October. What we need, George, is political progress. There's been no political progress, no political reconciliation among the three groups, no division of oil revenues. Regional elections hardly are going to happen. There is no military solution to the war in Iraq. There's a political solution, and there's little progress --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But, Governor, do you concede that we have seen real progress in bringing down the violence? We do see refugees returning home and you heard Senator McCain say that we are starting to see some reconciliation at the local level even though there's still intransigence at the federal level.
GOV. RICHARDSON: Violence has been ebb and flows, George. I believe that no American death is worthy of saying body counts have gone down. Forty died in October. Sixty five percent of the Iraqi people in a recent poll say it's okay to shoot at an American soldier. Until we withdraw all our forces, the political reconciliation that we all want -- a multinational peacekeeping force, a donor conference, the three groups in Iraq, the Sunni, the Shi'a and the Kurds coming together, a unification of the country -- is not going to happen.
Look what happened when the British withdrew from Basra -- 90 percent violent went down. What I believe, George, is that all of this talk about casualty counts going down -- that is wrong. That is not how you measure progress. You measure progress by is there movement towards political compromise. The answer is no. Is there movement towards a division of oil revenues? No. Is there movement towards regional stability with Iran and Syria perhaps participating in a constructive way? The answer is no.
The best way to achieve a political solution in Iraq is to withdraw our forces. Our troops have become targets. Until we make measurable efforts to bring political reconciliation, then our efforts in Iraq will continue to fail.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But how can those discussions go forward, how can you have reconciliation if the environment is insecure, if the violence continues to the level of chaos?
GOV. RICHARDSON: My point is this -- you use the leverage of the American withdrawal to bring political compromise. The Maliki government, they're not going to have any incentive to achieve political compromise to share oil revenues to bring unity to the country while we still have American troops. Our troops have become targets. Unless we get our troops out, unless we forge with strong diplomacy -- I know the region, I went head to head with Saddam Hussein -- I brought two American prisoners out 10 years ago. Eighty percent of my time as UN ambassador dealt with the issue of Iraq. It's called diplomacy. It's called reconciliation. And until our troops are gone in a sustainable way -- I have said, get all our troops out within a year. Leave no residual forces behind. This is the difference between me and Senator Obama and Edwards. They would leave 75,000, 50,000 troops behind by the year 2013. I have made a commitment to get them all out within one year, and within one year I believe we can forge a political reconciliation -- a Dayton-type agreement where you share oil revenues, where you share perhaps a soft partition -- but unless we get all our troops out, none of that reconciliation, that political solution can happen.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator, I don't think you're right on the facts. I think Senator Edwards has said that he would bring all combat brigades out of Iraq and Senator Obama has said he would bring out one or two brigades a month starting this year. And even Senator Clinton has not said she would leave 75,000 troops in Iraq.
GOV. RICHARDSON: What I have said is in a recent debate that I would take all the troops out within a year and then the other candidates were asked -- would you get all troops out by the year 2013, and I think the other candidates said, no, that they're going to keep their options open. My position is clear. Get the troops out within a year in a safe and orderly way. We can do that. We've done that. We've moved 240,000 troops within three months at the start of the war through Kuwait. I wouldn't leave some troops in Kuwait to deal with contingencies -- about 5,000 troops. I would refurbish our presence in Afghanistan, which is needed, but I clearly believe that our troops today are an impediment -- an impediment -- towards reaching a political solution in Iraq.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Also at the last debate you took on the other candidates over the issue of mudslinging. You said it's time for it to stop. Let me show what you said.
GOV. RICHARDSON: (From videotape.) Let's stop this mudslinging. Let's stop this going after each other on character, on trust. Let us debate the issues that affect the American people. (Applause.)
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's a fine sentiment, Governor, but our reporting and polling suggest that voters do have questions about Senator Clinton's honesty and trustworthiness. Why shouldn't that debated?
GOV. RICHARDSON: My point, George, is let's have a debate on the policy differences. I differ with her, for instance, on how many troops we leave in Iraq, on why she voted for the Iran resolution. I don't believe we're safer today than we were when President Bush started after 9/11. Those are legitimate policy differences, but for us Democrats to tear each other down, talk about issues like trust, like are we controlled by special interest, like other personal attacks -- I don't believe we should be doing that. This is a Democratic primary, there should be an ample discussion of policy differences, but not personal attacks. We're going to get attacked by the Republicans in the general election. Let's get ready for that. But for us to be back-biting each other, mudslinging each other at a time when the American people want us to be positive -- I'm going to win this nomination because I'm positive. I'm talking about what I want to do for this country, how I want to bring this country together, how we need to be bipartisan. The last thing we do is to be attacking each other's characters at this stage of the campaign.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: One of the major themes of your campaign is that we have to change the way America's viewed around the world, and the others have made the same point. It's a consistent theme on the campaign trail. Andrew Sullivan in this month's "Atlantic" magazine says that's Barack Obama's greatest strength. He says -- he writes that Obama would provide the most effective rebranding of the United States since Reagan. He goes on to say this -- it's November, 2008. A young Pakistani Muslim is watching television and sees that this man Barack Hussein Obama is the new face of America. In one simple image, America's soft power has been ratcheted up not a notch, but a logarithm. Isn't that a huge advantage for Barack Obama and how do you counter it?
GOV. RICHARDSON: I think this election is about who can change this country and who has the experience to do it. George, all my life as a diplomat, as a UN ambassador, as a congressman, as a governor, as a special envoy bringing countries together, rescuing hostages, I am able to bring people and countries together. Now, also I have demonstrated change in my career as a governor. I'm the only CEO in this race. I am the only that has negotiated diplomatically with other countries. I'm the only one also that has succeeded in creating jobs and improving access to healthcare. The American people are going to make that judgment, and I'm glad that the people of Iowa, the people of New Hampshire -- I did eight house parties in Iowa yesterday, 50, 75 people at each house party. This race is wide open and I feel that they're open to my theme of changing this country with the right experience.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And we will see what happens in the next several weeks. Governor Richardson, thanks very much.
Source